Bootcamp (15-Mar to 16-Mar)
Preface
Now that I’ve closed the book on low-value work/life commitments to free up time to game + date again, I needed to come up with a serious plan of action for the fall/summer. Taking action without understanding your deficits is just bashing your head against the wall, hoping for an occasional miracle self-revelation. I can’t afford to wait for these moments. I took this bootcamp to get an understanding of my blind spots, so I could spend the summer exploring and learning those areas of game.
Nightgame 15-Mar
Nightgame Strategy Discussion
I meet up with D in the LES where he asks me about going to The DL. I explain that I went there with another PUA a couple months ago, but found it too difficult. D decides to go to a club in midtown where there are more likely to be out-of-towners which would give me better reception.
On the way there, he explains his general nightclub strategy:
Opening a girl on the dance floor or the lounge (/bar) area will likely get him cockblocked by the friend(s). It is best for him to wait in the in-between spaces for girls to pass. Then isolate the girl and start to build attraction
Isolation method redacted ;)
You build attraction by being sexworthy (RSD Julien idea: purposeful, controlled, flowing, self-amused) and vibing
Vibing is not logical. I kind of knew this from our group pull during Austens bootcamp in Barcelona + my own solo NG close here, but still difficult for me to implement in practice.
D reiterates the Casey Zander video - pretending to be a cowboy caveman is the essence of vibing.
D says: “You have 300k TC game. You need to improve by advancing to 50k game.”
He is always prepared for the friend(s) to show up and object. At this point, he has hopefully had enough time to build enough attraction for the girl to be on his side. He handles the objection by communicating this to the friend(s). Eg, “Yo, get the fuck out of here! <name> is hot for me.” Then they all laugh and the friends leave.
Q+A with D
During this time, he also reviews his rotation-girl textgame and quizzes me. I thought I had good textgame based on my learnings from my app days, but apparently I was missing some things. I realize I have a “friend-approved” frame as a white guy that makes textgame easier, whereas D constantly has to build attraction over text as he is in a constant tug-of-war with her friend’s perception of him as a brown guy.
I also ask him a list of questions I had come up. The answers are covered in subsequent sections.
D details his major game influences:
Vibe/Adding Value: RSD Julien
Energy/Momentum: RSD Tyler
Masculinity: Paul Jenka / Casey Zander / PsychHacks
Sexuality: McQueen
Fun / Frame Battle: Wild n Out
I had also been contacted by Specter, a member of the NYC chat, who recommended I check out RSD Todd based on my field reports as we are both logic-cels. What I like about Todd’s teachings / saw in D was the concept of “narrative” - telling a story to control the frame / build value. I asked D about this:
“You often come up with these imagined stories on the fly. Like that time you came into my set with a 10/10 girl and explained how we just fell in love next to the romantic dim light of a Halal cart. Do you turn ordinary situations into romantic ones on purpose?”
He explains that basically, yes, he tells stories to make his intent clear and showcase his personality. He says this is discussed in PIMP, but I haven’t gotten that far yet.
Midtown NG
We arrive and pay a small cover. It’s a rooftop club, two floors with an amazing view.
Bottom is the dancehall, upstairs is the bar/restaurant area. The plan would be to wait by the stairs (which is also by the water cooler) to catch girls transitioning between the two.
We chill for a minute, then I go nearby to order a cocktail to calm my anxiety. While it’s being prepared, a cute very drunk latina stumbles up next to me and asks the bartender “Where’s the water?”. I look at her and explain she can get water at the cooler and points out where that is. She looks at me and stumbles off. I tell the bartender “Man, she was super drunk.” The bartender agrees.
I look back at her getting water next to D. D’s eyes widen as he motions to the girl. He wants me to open. I’m frozen- still relying too much on being in a “ready” state to approach. I hesitate and don’t approach.
I wait for the bartender to finish my drink and walk back to D by the cooler. She is already gone. “She looked back at you; you should have opened”.
Shit; I had no excuse for messing that up. Still have to internalize assumed attraction and taking action even if I don’t feel “ready”.
We wait a bit longer by the stairs but no other sets walk past. D explains that this is the major problem with NG: with a limited number of sets, expect to spend most of the night waiting for the perfect time to open.
Compared to daygame where there are always girls walking around without potential cockblocks, NG is super inefficient. Plus, we payed a cover and there was no guarantee of quality or volume. These fundamental problems are why D doesn’t regularly nightgame. Eventually, we decide to go back to the DL.
Responding to Emotion, not Logic
We take a cab back, and the conversation moves a bit more to daygame.
I explain my dilemma of not having enough to talk about pre-hook in sets that are relatively non-descript. Eg, in winter there were a lot of girls scurrying about in long black coats. There was almost nothing of interest for me to talk about.
D explains that my problem is (as usual) being too much of a logic-cel. He explains that he typically doesn’t care or bother to make logical sense when he’s opening a girl. His only goal in the opener is to stimulate her emotionally. How he continues the interaction will differ not depending on her logical response, but her emotional response: positive, neutral, or negative. “That’s how I get away with saying off-the-cuff shit all time. I say whatever I want, but I’m able to adjust by responding to her emotionally”.
As D is explaining this, I realized this philosophy was liberating to my logic-cel sensibilities. Even when I am engaging with a girl emotionally, there is a logic filter that my thoughts pass through for the purpose of avoiding misunderstanding. But a logical misunderstanding doesn’t matter as much as an emotional misunderstanding. I’m often too focused on making logically-appropriate responses, that I’m missing out on making emotionally-appropriate responses.
It’s a completely different communication paradigm than anything I’ve identified/understood - don’t listen and respond to logic, listen and respond to emotion. It’s an idea I’m going to have to think about more.
The DL / Street Game
The Uber arrives and we head into the DL. No line and no cover- not a good sign D explains. We walk up to the club area and it looks not too crowded. The girls are mostly large groups of browns. “The brown guys must think this is heaven” D explains. But not good for us.
D points out a few PUAs to me . I ask him how he knows. Some of them he recognizes, others he points out how they are lurking about waiting for opens. I also remember doing this when I was here with another PUA. Something to think about if I ever go solo is to look for other PUAs in the venue to link up with.
We park ourselves near the bar-dance floor corridor. Only a couple of sets pass us over 15 minutes. D again reiterates this is why daygame is so much better- we could have opened so much more in the same time span, and without the risk of getting cockblocked. I ask why don’t we leave and explore other nearby venues. D explains that if you leave too early too often, the bouncer will start to recognize what’s up and you’ll ruin the venue. So we’re kind of stuck here.
When enough time has passed, we leave. It’s seeming like the night is cucked. We start to walk back to my apartment a few blocks away. Along the way, D has me open every solo girl on the street. But I’m just running a daygame tease routine, so the sets go nowhere. “It’s nightgame, stop trying to make sense.” - he says. I have no idea how to do this. Maybe it has to do with the idea of responding to emotions that he described earlier.
D leaves me with some parting words: “Nightgame isn’t what it used to be. A lot of nights will be like this. Should be better in the summer though- we’ll try again then.”
Apartment Game 15-Mar
Not sure what to call this: “boxgame” “studiogame”?
Strategy
We arrive at my studio.
Usually, when a girl is here, I just let her explore to get comfortable, she asks dumb questions about my things while I grab myself a drink and offer her a drink/water, we move to the couch to drink, talk, wait for her to scootch into me/hug her into me and then make out, talk, make out while escalating, then move to bed.
D examines my apartment, and describes a more masculine, assertive approach that he would take if he lived here- where he’s physically leading the girl around from the start and escalating more aggressively
Specifics redacted ;) Plus, most of this is unique to my place anyway
Girl Next Door Encounter
D is at risk of being harassed if he leaves alone, so we are going to leave together for the nearest train station together around 2AM.
As we open the door, a couple doors down the hall an 8/10 white girl with a leather jacket is standing in front of an open apartment door- a black cat is stretched out as if to guard the entrance. D advances a bit, looks at the cat, and bends over making a ‘tch’ sound to try to draw the cat to him. The cat isn’t giving him frame.
The girl looks at D and explains: “Yeah, he’s very shy.”
D says: “Well I have a cat of my own. I’ll win him over”
The girl laughs goes “Do you live here?”
D laughs “I dress like I’m from the hood because I am from the hood. You think I can afford to live in a place like this?”
The girl laughs: “No you’re lying. You definitely live here”
D: “No fucking way I told you. I’m just visiting my friend”
The girl persists: “Then where do you live?”
The conversation continues. D insists he is telling the truth about everything. He pulls out his phone to a pic of his cat, and the girl comes over to check it out. She’s sounds engaged in the conversation, but I’m busy looking at the cat. Eventually D pulls away: “Well, we got to get going. I’ll be back at some point to win over the cat” We all exchange names and D and I part down the elevator.
In the elevator, D explains: “Did you see what happened there?”
I didn’t. I was more focused on the cat.
“She asked me where I lived twice” Oh shit, he’s right: she hooked; I was being oblivious.
“And she was running cover for me when I said I didn’t live here. She couldn’t believe a guy like me lived in the hood” I missed that dynamic too.
“She came over to me to check out my cat pictures. If I lived here instead of you, I could have asked her back to the apartment for a drink.”
Damn it. I punch the elevator- I was completely distracted and I missed the dynamics of the interaction. This stuff is so obvious in hindsight, but in the moment it’s so hard to read. D is a bit surprised that a girl from a place like mine was pursuing him so hard, but I can see it- most of the people in my building are uninteresting boring “professionals”, so someone with social savvy and an actual personality is more attractive than the alternative.
I escort D before returning to rest up for daygame tomorrow morning.
Daygame 16-Mar
Warming Up
Saturday morning of St. Patrick’s day. Herald is brimming with energy and sunlight. But we are both tired from last night so we grab Starbucks. “White man energy - what would I do without you guys” D teases.
D wants me to come in with fun, but I explain that I am still hard stuck in logic-cel mode from all the discussion we had last night. Waiting for our drinks, I spot a girl about to leave but I’m frozen. A fun opener isn’t coming to me. “What do I say?” I ask D. He replies: “I left my boyfriend to go talk to you”. I run out:
“Oatmilk latte, hey.”
“Hi?”
“I left my boyfriend at Starbucks to go talk to you. You looked cute, I think you converted me”
“Oh, haha, hi”
“What are you up to?”
Shes going to visit her friends, but doesn’t have any plans to drink. I say she’s a ‘no-alcohol, no-fun’ girl, she laughs and says she just doesn’t like crowds. I tease her that she’s just trying to hide her crazy side from me. I cold-read her as from Northern NJ like I was. But run out of material, so I eject. I head back in and talk to D.
“The opener worked?”
“Yeah”
He laughs “I told you. The retarded lines work”
“Yeah, she was laughing too” But I explain that I wasn’t warmed up, so I ejected.
We continue on. I spot Jason and flag him over to us to shadow my session.
D reiterates the goal for this session: “Remember, stupid openers create instant fun. And also remember to kino. When she laughs, slap her on the hand: ‘Stop, are you laughing at me?’”
“Yeah, I get it. It’s the Julien philosophy of self-amusement”
“Exactly - have fun to amuse you, not her. Amusing her is jestering. Say what the fuck you want for you, not for her.”
“Yeah, I see that. Self-amusement, creating value through emotional transfer. I have my own self-amusement paradigms, I now need to come up with more.”
“Exactly”
I explain to D how I see him self-amuse from my perspective: “Yeah, and one way I see you amuse yourself is through your identity. You’re a brown dude who wishes he was white so he goes to Starbucks and Trader Joes. You live past 150th st, but are still desired more than a 300k tech bro who spends all day at Equinox to increase his pool of yes-girls. It’s a simple stupid fun story, and you bring this identity into your interactions. It’s high value to open by confidently admitting your flaws. Just like the girl last night, she didn’t even believe you at first. But she was still attracted afterwards: why would you admit to living in the ghetto when visiting a luxury highrise unless you had massive value in other ways.”
“Yes”
“Right, and my next self-development idea is to come up with a fun identity for myself.”
“Yes, you get it. A lot of my students think what I do is too crazy for them. But it all comes from my core. An identity I developed for myself.”
Being Fun
D points out a girl for me. I practice the line:
“Excuse, me I was just over there with my boyfriend, but you may have just converted me. So I wanted to come over and say hello”
She says “What?” with a heavy accent, and I repeat the opener in a different way. She can definitely hear me, but we keep looping on this. Something was weird about her. I eject. We talk - D saw the interaction and agrees there was something off about her.
I open another girl with jeans and a denim jacket. Repeated an obvious, fun opener I’ve used before: “Excuse me, I had to talk to the queen of denim”
She laughs. Her friend appears, also in denim. “You two are together?” “yes” “The queens of denim?” They laugh but one pulls the other away.
D: Good, you’re becoming more fun.
Approach and number close a Chinese girl:
“Excuse me, I was just with my boyfriend back there, but you may have converted me.”
“I wanted to introduce myself — Ray, nice to meet you”
“<name>, nice to meet you”
“You visiting for St. Patrick’s day?”
“Yeah, I’m visiting.”
“From overseas?”
“I’m studying in Philadelphia”
“Hell yeah, you strike me as science girl. I’m a science boy myself, so I would know”
“Actually, communications.”
“Oh, that makes more sense. That’s how you’re able to talk to me right now. You’re like: ‘I need to study communications to communicate with the cute guys on the street’”
Haha
The conversation continues a bit, and I number close and tell her to enjoy her day. But the number seemed super weak- no hook, and felt more like nervous laughter than vibing laughter. I was suspicious of her “studying in Philadelphia” line - Pancake had once explained that Asian visitors pretend to live in the US for one reason or another.
I thought I was being fun, but D explains there was material I missed - “You’re visiting from Philly? So I’m going to have to be your New York boyfriend” “You’re going shopping right now? Don’t forget to get your new boyfriend something” I’m humorous, but need to be humorous in a man-to-woman or sexual way.
The paradigm discussed is prize-framing yourself or assuming attraction: “She’s visiting → She’s here to see me” “She’s shopping → shopping for a gift to win me over.”
Next time, D says, open with: “I’m just a spicy white boy trying to put myself out there.” Fun and it prizes yourself. And build a narrative off it:
“Yeah, I got bored of all the attention I was getting on dating apps. Plus every other guy is too scared of getting rejected by a women in real life because they’re too afraid to be a man.”
“I live in a studio in the LES so I don’t have to shit in the club toilets.”
This is a great lesson - I don’t really have a story. I just try to come up with teases, communicate intent, probe logistics, try to handle objections, and then try to number close. I’m adding nothing unique to the interaction that anyone else could say. I need to develop a simple-stupid identity and self-amuse from it. I need a framework for a story behind any given approach, and use that framework to control the frame / self-amuse / demonstrate value: I’m a spicy white boy looking for a boring vanilla girl so I can add a little fun to her life. And you look like you fit the bill.
Another surprising criticism D gave me was my closing: “Don’t tell her ‘Have a nice day’. It’s needy. The subcommunication is: ‘I like you’. You don’t know her yet. Too much comfort. Comfort is feminine energy. You need a little comfort, but for you focus more on the masculine. They’re the girl - it’s their job to comfort you the man.”
Damn, that was a big blind spot. He’s right - comforting a stranger is validation-seeking behavior. It’s okay for me to add comfort if I made her uncomfortable, but otherwise if the interaction is going well, I shouldn’t add anymore comfort otherwise I’m basically saying “Please like me”.
I have another interaction with a girl where I’m throwing out constant fun lines for almost a minute. But then she ejects: “Sorry, I’m in a rush to get somewhere”
D explains my mistake: “You had a fun interaction, and she was having fun, but she left because there was no masculinity. You needed to come in with: ‘You know what, I find you attractive. What’s your name by the way?’
“Jestering is feminine. If you’re just jestering they’re going to lose interest. We jester only because it buys us time to get them emotionally invested. So once they’ve emotionally invested, it’s time to show them your masculine energy.”
A String of Maybes
The rest of the session I encounter only “maybe” girls. I think it was the excitement of St. Patrick’s day celebrations that was getting to these girls heads today. My stops weren’t as assertive as they need to be for this situation. I open, they often just say “what”, I repeat the “spicy white” line, then they just walk away on.
D tells me for these “maybes”, I fuck up when I don’t come in with high energy. Without the right energy, what I say won’t matter. And when I come in with a masculine stop and a high energy opener, I should be persisting with masculine high energy if they they walk away:
“I’m only trying to talk to you, you don’t have to give me an attitude”
“Hold the fuck up - I’m just trying to talk to you”
“What’s the problem, you were hoping I was a vanilla white boy instead?”
If she gets angry at my persistence: “Whoa, whoa, whoa, damn girl, sorry but you’re just being so mean today! I just want to get to know you” Said in a playful way
D reiterates: “Remember what I told you last night - she was dismissive which was a low energy, negative emotion. You can’t overcome this with logic. You can only fight her dismissive frame by responding with higher energy, positive emotions: ‘HEY, you need to CHILL with that attitude sister!’” Said in a high-energy playful way
Most maybe girls were low-energy dismissive. One maybe girl I approached, she tops, smiles and gives me a loud bubbly “Hello” but then walks off. D comes up and laughs: she was the opposite of the other girls. This one was dismissive using higher energy, positive emotions. “Where you headed off to? You gonna run into the store right now? No no, we’re talking” He says this with lower energy, more negative emotion.
Very interesting - I now see the concept as a frame battle of emotion and energy.
Jason and I practice frame battles for the rest of the session as I continue to start paying attention to the energy and emotion of the rest of the maybe girls. D explains that I am logic-ing too much:
Jason: “What’s up with the clown shoes?
→ Me: “What do you mean, these are the fanciest shoes on the block right now. What’s up with your shoes?“
→ D: Bad, logic. Be fun and stupid: “These shoes cost more than your life”
Debrief
We discuss how to stop maybe girls. The maybe girls will only be stopped by a masculine stop if the stop is followed by congruent masculine energy. Technique is not enough. Then objection handline/persistence is not just a verbal battle, it’s a battle of energy - if she is low, dismissive, you need to be high persistent. The verbal component isn’t as important in the beginning of the interaction because het social brain hasn’t lit up yet. She’s only feeling emotions and energy, not words.
We discuss the overall beginner daygame framework:
It’s to come in with fun and jester until she emotionally invests. Then, hit her with the masculine man-to-woman frame. After should be sexual fun, then comfort.
Shadow Jason’s Session
Jason is getting coaching after me, so I follow him and also runs into many maybes. On a technical level, his stops are better than mine, and he also has the technical skills to re-stop. So the maybes give him a few more moments to speak before ejecting. This happens repeatedly, until D explains that after a masculine stop, you need to come in a statement of empathy.
Jason is able to pick up technicals fast, so he starts to add in empathy, but the girls are still leaving. I can hear why: His energy when the girls are walking away is needy. As if to say: “Noooo, please come baaaaaack….”
D recites lines he would use to persist, saying them in a tone that isn’t needy:
“Don’t shoot me, just wanted to meet you. I think I’m in love. It’s crowded let’s move over here.”
“You breaking up with me already? This is the fastest breakup I’ve ever had.”
“Hey, chill we can get to know each other for 2 minutes.”
“Where you walking off with that badass energy?”
At the end of Jason’s session, I am IOIed by a dressed up girl and open her. She is from Long Island, dressed up, and was just walking around for “no reason”. I got her number, but should have insta-dated. Wasn’t thinking.
Text Review
Preface
After daygame, D reviews a text conversation I had. I thought my text game was decent (experience from my app binging days).
Context (This was an interaction I had mentioned in the group chat)
I cold approached this girl and cold-read her as going to a date. She said yes. I said “Oh boy, which is it? Tinder, Bumble?” She said she couldn’t remember and fumbled to take out her phone out to check. I laughed and said: “Wow, you’re a hot mess on every dating app there is. Have you ever been on a date with a guy from real life?” Thinking she would say no, but she actually said actually yes (later found out she meant from social circle but I was her first cold-approach date). I laughed and teased even more: “You’re seeing guys from every dating app AND real life and you’re still single? So what’s your problem?”
I can’t remember her response or the rest of the interaction, but I don’t recall it being too long so I didn’t follow-up. But regardless, she ended up reaching out two days later
The Text Exchange
D’s Feedback
My textgame was generally good, but D identified a few blind spots and one MAJOR fuckup that I didn’t notice. Did you spot my huge fuckup in the above image?
Overall: Some fun, some alpha. But I missed opportunities for more fun, was too needy with logistics, and majorly fucked up the man-to-woman frame. Textgame is my strong suit because I can logic-analyze all the social nuances and craft perfect replies.
Date Review
Preface
The date (from the above text-exchange) was in a super quiet cocktail bar, so I recorded the whole 2 hour audio.
I have the same strategy I usually run on all dates:
Hug and breaking the ice conversation. EG, How was my day/week, how was yours?
Get-to-know-you talk, but make it as amusing / teasey as possible
Playfully disqualify the things about her I don’t like
Get excited over things I like
Demonstrate high value (accomplishments, network, life-philosophy/motivations)
Act non-needy
After she has “warmed up” to me, I continue the same but also:
Light kino
Seed the pull
Have her qualify herself: why do you do this/that, why are you single, what would happen if…
Eye contact and letting tension build with pauses in conversation / adding more sexual tones
Sexual gambit
We-frame future-projection
End the date and (attempt to) pull
On my re-review, I pretty much followed my exact playbook, except the pull was cucked from the beginning with her text saying she had dance after. The only thing I think I did poorly was forgot my sexual gambit, and barely did we-frame (only did it one or two times).
But she was a yes-girl, so I wasn’t really tested on the date. She “warmed up” to me within 15 minutes, and was clearly satisfied with the date, as I closed the next night I could get her over to me.
So overall, I thought I did well on this date, especially the beginning. But knew I missed a couple points from my playbook in the second half of the date. Regardless, I wanted D to review the audio to see if I had missed any other dynamics in the interaction.
And now that I’ve heard his feedback, my god - I didn’t just miss things; I’ve been dating blind this whole time.
Date Feedback
Logic is Death
D plays the beginning of my date audio for us to both hear:
I opened the date by talking about my day as an ice-breaker: I had just been in upper Manhattan for my first work trip at my new job, so the company let me expense an Uber to get down to the bar. Then I joked that unfortunately I probably couldn’t expense this date.
She laughed as well, teasing me that I should try anyway. I laughed and clapped back “Are you trying to get me fired? Oh boy, you’re trouble already.” She laughs again and says she likes to take calculated risks.
I replied: “Yeah, I’ll probably try to push the boundaries in the future, but maybe I should make my goal for this year to become good friends with the bookkeeper.” I then role-played a conversation between me and the bookkeeper, arguing that my bar tab was a necessary professional expense. She was laughing as well.
I thought it was a funny ice breaker and great start to the date. I got over the awkward beginning part of a date and had her giggling in under 3 minutes.
D pauses the audio and I get my first date feedback:
“Dude, you’re mansplaining”
I spit my drink out. This is a term I’ve only heard feminists use seriously. D explains:
“You’re using too much logic. Too much logic is mansplaining. She’s trying to be fun and flirty with you, and you’re causing emotional death by logic-ing at her. You needed to stop logic yapping and make everything fun and sexual.”
He goes through the conversation and explains how he would strip out all the logic talk and go straight to emotions, fun, sex, and playfulness:
“I expensed an Uber to get here because I’m white. I didn’t want to get stabbed taking the subway through Harlem.”
“If you get me fired, I’ll have to start an OnlyFans” → She’ll laugh → “Why you laughing? We both know I’m handsome enough to be a top influencer”
or: “If you get me fired, you’re going to have to hire me as a maid to clean your apartment all day”
“You spent 3 minutes yapping logic to get to a couple of emotional spikes. I created the same emotional spikes in 10 seconds. It’s much more impactful. She’s going to remember me more.”
Throughout the subsequent “get-to-know-you” conversations of the date, my over-use of logic is a recurring theme. I start to see that I’m first using logic to engage in the conversation topics, and then trying to connect the logic to some kind of emotion. Basically, my mental framework is topic → logical answer → emotion.
Throughout the review, D continuously provides me alternative responses that strip out all of my logic. His framework is closer to topic → emotion:
Topic: “What do you do for work?”
→ Me: “I work in healthcare but it doesn’t pay enough so I have a part-time job as a stripper”
→ Me: “I work in a pharmacy to sell dick pills to old guys all day”
→ Me: “What do you think I do for work” → Her: “IDK, maybe you work in sales?” → Me: “Whoa! What do I look like to you? Some ex-frat bro from Murray Hill?”
Topic: “My favorite drink is…”
→ “Oh, boy, when I was in college that used to get me FUCKED UP. Now I just do weed”
She’s getting frustrated
Me: “Don’t worry, if I like you enough, I could be your personal drug dealer. What do you want? Plan B? Or Birth control?”
“Are you trying to say ….?”
Me: “No, but do you…? Why are you so defensive? This seems like a red flag of yours.”
He explains the pitfalls of logic: “Do you see when you do logic, she also does logic. She will give back to you what you give to her”
D continues: “You’re adding logic to the date because you’re unsure of yourself. Logic is how you’re rationalizing your emotions to her. That’s feminine. It’s girls that use logic to rationalize their emotions. You’re doing what girls do.”
Damn, that hit hard.
“What happens when I’m on a date? It’s all fun, no logic. If I use logic, it means I’m qualifying myself to her. I don’t need to qualifying my emotions with logic. I’m not justifying how I amuse myself. I’m not trying to impress her. I’m my authentic self, and unlike you, I don’t feel the need to logic why I am who I am to her. In fact, you want her to use logic to qualify herself to you. You want her mansplaining herself to you”
“The girl sees this and goes: ‘This guy is sure of himself. He’s having fun. He knows he’s above me, so he doesn’t care to justify himself with logic. He’s saying whatever he wants without filtering himself for me. He’s not chasing me. In fact, he’s so sure of himself and his status, he’s making me justify myself to him. He’s making me chase him.’”
D explains that his dates are only 30-45 minutes long, and he’s still able to pull her back to his place in the mountains of Manhattan. “Your date was 90 minutes longer than it needed to be because 3 quarters of it was you logic mansplaining. Your responses need to be short and emotionally impactful. Logic-talking for 3 minutes for just one joke isn’t memorable.”
I didn’t initially believe this until he kept providing examples of what he would have said.
The entire date review felt like him verbalizing a speedrun of my date by stripping out all of the logic. If he were in my shoes, it would have been a date that was 30 minutes of pure fun, sexualization, masculinity, emotional connection, and physical escalation.
Physical Escalation
While reviewing the audio, D asked me what I was doing for physical escalation. I said basically did not escalate for the first 20 minutes of the date. We sat together in a couch, but when she sat down, there was a pillow in between us. I’ve had this happen before where a girl will put her bag between us to prevent unwanted physical escalation. But 20 minutes in, she took the pillow away herself and scootched closer to me. This was the sign that she had “warmed up” to me, so I moved into the second half of my dating script, where I did some light kino here and there for the rest of the date.
D’s feedback:
“You need to physically escalate from the beginning, and then constantly throughout the date. After you hugged her, you should have taken her hand: “Cmon, I got us a nice intimate table in the back for us to be romantic together.” And then walk her over.”
I ask what to do if she didn’t accept the hand. D verbalizes: “Don’t be weird this is a date. I’m a man, so I’m going to hold your hand because you’re a woman.” → “If that makes you uncomfortable, then why the fuck you come to a date for?”
I ask him how he would have escalated when we were seated, given that she put a pillow in between us when she sat down.
He explains: “If I saw her put a pillow between us, I’d pick it up and say “What is this? No, no, no. You’re not friendzoning me.” Then I’d playfully smack her across the face with it.”
I laugh my ass off visualizing this.
He continues: “I need her next to me because for the rest of the date, it’s the same escalation you see me do for daygame. In daygame, I always open her right next to her so I can get physical with her. And on a date, I also need her close to me because I’m always physical throughout the date.”
I ask what to do if she ever pulls away or gets uncomfortable with your attempts at escalation. He says he just ignores it and continues on. “The more you own the escalation, the less they’re going to question it: ‘He’s getting turned on, so he’s escalating, so I’m getting turned on’”
Throughout the date review, he constantly describes other opportunities for physical escalation:
Specifics redacted ;)
Overall, I see D has two “categories” of physical escalation: escalation to build sexual tension, and escalation to punctuate a disqualification.
Challenge / Play
Another key principle D reminds me to do is to constantly challenge her to stimulate her emotions. My idea of a “challenge” is to disqualify anything I don’t like. Meanwhile D points out opportunities to challenge almost everything and anything she says.
Her: “I like to take calculated risks” → Me: “Calculated risks? That’s so boring. I like a girl who’s wild and fun”
She can’t remember something I mentioned earlier → “What am I to you, just another handsome guy to validate you?”
She says what her favorite drink is → Me: “That’s gross”
She says what she does for work → Me: “God, that’s so boring.”
Her: “I wouldn’t have thought you worked in healthcare” → Me: “What do you mean? You don’t think I’m healthy? You don’t see these biceps? You think you could escape me?” bear hug her
She gives the waiter her order
→ Me: “That’s too boring”
→ “Wait, is this going to get her too fucked up? I have to take her home.”
Waiter: “How’s everything going tonight?” → Me: “Dude, I can’t stand her. Get me away please, just get me out of here.”
Waiter “And anything for you?” → “No, she’s definitely going to misbehave so I need to be sober to take her home.”
He explains:
“When a girl is emotionally attracted to you, she’ll just agree with everything you say unless she had a stronger emotional experience on the subject in the past. She’ll use her logic brain to backwards rationalize her emotional attraction to you, and start to logically qualify herself anytime you logically disqualify her.“
If you don’t make her invest in you, then you’re just there for her validation and she’s going to cuck you.
Ending the Date
D explains he only adds in a sprinkle of comfort at the end:
“Well I had a good time tonight, despite me being a drug dealer and you having the most boring job in the city.”
and then pull: “I feel like you and I could have a fun time together. Let’s get out of here and go to [my place]”
“The only thing I take my time on is the comfort part. Comfort builds trust. You can’t rush trust part, otherwise it isn’t meaningful and shows you’re being disingenuous”
“And comfort is not just disney comfort. It’s man-to-woman comfort: we frame with sexualization”
Date Review Wrap-up
In the end, D’s assessment was this:
You went in without a plan, hoping to get sex. Your date was quintessential be-yourself game. You basically asked her to see you at a bar and then said: ‘Here I am, I hope you fuck me now’. And it only worked because she decided to give you permission. You were basically talking about her past for 2 hours. For other girls, this will go nowhere.
Meanwhile, I go on a date to get sex. I’m going into the date to make her want to have sex with me.
Remember, she will gave back to you what you gave her. If you’re giving her logic, she’s going to give you logic. If you’re giving her comfort, she’s going to give you comfort. If you’re sexual, she’s going to be sexual. And if you’re frame battling, she’s going to frame battle back. But eventually, if you win the win the battle, she will just submit and see you as sex-worthy.
You did too much logic, comfort, and not enough fun. And remember, comfort is friendzone. Give her comfort, she will give you the friendzone. Anything other than a yes-girl would have friendzoned you for how much comfort you did.
Lessons Learned
There were way too many revelations on this bootcamp to wrap things up here succinctly, but here are the general lessons:
I have a clearer understanding of the strategy needed for everything: daygame, nightgame, closing, text game
Reliance on logic continues to be a major weak spot. While logic does informs the strategy and the execution of the strategy, other than that, logic actively hinders game:
It gets in the way of the emotional experience the girl needs to be attracted to you. A girl wants to have an emotional experience with you and then for sex to “just happen naturally”, unaware that you were following a logical underlying sequence to make that happen
Logic demonstrates you aren’t comfortable with your emotions if you use logic to rationalize them
Logic to defend your frame demonstrates you don’t have an intrinsic confidence in your frame
Understanding your identity is key to building your core game. Your identity is your frame. Your identity needs to be relatable, think simple stupid, but multifaceted. You need to simultaneously be:
A Lover - Everything can lead to romance
An Entertainer - Humor can be found in everything
A Commander - You dictate plans or actions succinctly, with authority and purpose
A Judge - You weigh all aspects of others personalities, words, or actions against the truth of the matter (your frame)
A Warrior - you fight all opposition to your frame, and ally with all support for for your frame
A Nurse - You understand that driving a needle in initially causes some discomfort and tension, but you have compassion enough to add some comfort and compassion when it’s over as reassurance that what you did was ultimately for the patient’s own good
From your identity flows your thoughts, words, actions, and emotions without filter and without logic. It’s what vibing is - exposing your true identity at its core.